Lunch With Victor Liong.
The first thing I noticed about Victor was his white shoes.
It was my third time meeting Victor. The first time was a private cooking class hosted by Dani Valent in 2018, and the second time was during the Gourmet Traveller shoot last November. He asked if he could pay for my medium-format portrait of him, and I said, sure, pay with your time, time of a coffee.
Our third time meeting, coffee got bumped up to lunch due to his busy schedule.
You know what they say about people who wear white shoes, they’re confident. They have the optimism that nothing will ruin their beautiful white shoes.
He suggested we meet at Butcher's Diner, which was unexpected but ended up perfect for our chat as we were uninterrupted the whole time.
He’s wearing Greek pork skewers and salad, and I cheeseburger and fries.
How Asian.
Know what else is also very Asian?
Using your European honeymoon to arrange a residency in London. Victor took over Carousel for a week cooking Lee Ho Fook’s food. You might’ve seen it on his Instagram - Ottolenghi was there, Fuchsia Dunlop was there. And then he went to Paris to meet his newly wedded wife.
“It’s just more efficient that way, you know. Compared to me going back and forth. And it’s great to just stay for a week, because if it’s longer than that, the high will probably run out and I’m just going to start looking at my watch every day by week two.”
Because I didn’t want to end up blabbering in an attempt to sound smart, I sent him a list of ‘talking points’ like a pretend writer instead.
We didn’t need the points.
Because, I left out a tiny little detail on our food ordering - Victor also offered me wine, and I took it. 12.30 pm on a weekday I started drinking red. We didn’t need the points because I got drunk and the points, like the first three quarter of an NBA game, were useless.
So from this point on, this is what Victor might have said mixed with what’s left of what I thought he said.
“The fish in London is small, man. We’re lucky here we’re surrounded by ocean, but in Europe they have small rivers and streams, right. So to get something like this *gestures a ruler’s length* over there is a huge fish.”
“I’m lucky to get to cook what I want, and I think I can only do that in Melbourne. Melbourne is a new-world city, right? We have everyone coming from everywhere and they are all looking for new things. My mum was a good cook so I learned all the good flavours from her. But you know what, I’m not Chinese, or Malaysian. I grew up in Sydney, and I’m cooking Australian Chinese food.
Authenticity is bullshit. It's chasing this romantic idea of how things used to be. If you ask my father he'd think he's this expert in Kuala Lumpur right, like he knows some secret hidden places, but once he gets there he just realised the whole place is completely different, and he's just out of his depth.
Sure I can serve you chicken and rice, but do you want to eat six courses of chicken and rice? Is that an enjoyable dining experience? ”
“People say their favourite restaurant is Noma and some other fine dining restaurants. I mean, how many times have you been to Noma? That’s an experience, right? Like I loved Momofuku Koi when it opened, but I won’t call it a favourite. My favourite restaurants are places where I go often, like here. They used to open 24 hours before COVID. I like Tina’s Noodles. Tim Ho Wan. Tim Ho Wan is great because they are consistent right, and I’m not going to make siu mai or baos when I crave them right?
Flower Drum. I go there three to four times a year. That place is not a restaurant, but a museum, right? I like how it’s putting Chinese food on a pedestal. Like this is what Asian excellence is like, and it’s up there with the best in Australia.
Asian excellence, that’s what I like.”
“Everyone just wants to see me, man. Managers want to have a meeting, young chefs expect to cook next to me, and diners thought I’ll be in the kitchen every night. I don’t think other professions are like this. Customers don’t expect to see the CEO of a company.”
“I’m happy to give my 20s, 30s maybe half of my 40s to food. After that, I need to get out right? Maybe I’ll still work in food, but not work with food, do you know what I mean?
You know how they say, you gotta give up what you love for what’s important? I’m married, right? I love living in the city, but I’m moving to Ivanhoe soon. Gotta think about what’s next.
In order to work less, we have to work more.
If I open two restaurants, it means the whole team just have to work twice as hard. But if I open three, four, five, then I can get a proper manager, a head chef, a whole team to oversee the whole thing. Like a rocket, right, you need the fuel, the momentum to reach an effective velocity, and then the rocket gets on to orbit and just sheds everything and flies by itself.
But I was listening to this podcast, and the guy said we also need to learn how to leave the game completely. So who knows, right.”
It was almost 2 pm, I semi-sobered up, and reminded him during our first meeting, that he gave out a green scallion oil recipe, which requires a Thermomix. I asked him if he had one of us without a Thermomix. The only talking points I’m not willing to forget.
“Easy, two parts oil, one part spring onion, the green part. If you’re using a hand blender, chop the onions into smaller pieces. Heat the oil to around 30°C first, and blend together with the onions. Use the heat of the blender to take it up to 60°C, and strain it. Use the coffee filter papers, and discard the pulps. The oil will come out bright green.”
He walked me back to my bike.
I said this is cool, let’s do it again sometime, sounding like a guy who messed up his first date, asking for a second.
“Sure man, give me a text. I’m either really busy or really free. Who knows.”
You know what they say about people who wear white shoes.
Maybe they’re not optimistic, they just know life will throw whatever it wants on them, and it’ll be alright.
Butcher’s Diner is located at 10 Bourke Street, Melbourne. A good place for a grown-up, but down-to-earth work lunch. If I wasn’t so hung up on looking professional, I would have gone for the steak sandwich, because they had a whole cabinet of dry aging beef.